Waiver claim discussion thread

[John]

Here's a place where we can discuss the new waiver claim system without cluttering up the actual claim thread. Starting things off with a point from the Badgers:

public waiver claims allow a team higher on the list to guarantee a block of their opponent.

Yeah, that'll be part of the process: whether it's a "good" or "bad" part is up for debate.

Obviously the best thing would be if OOTP's personnel hiring system was as sophisticated as it's FA player signing system (maybe we'll see an improvement in OOTP9). Given the state of the system, personnel hiring is certainly best handled out-of-game for online leagues.

We could have had everyone send their claims via email to either me or one of the League Presidents. While that'd provide anonymity, it's not a terribly practical solution. First off, it'd be a lot of work for whomever is receiving those emails. Second, there'd be no easy way for owners to know if someone has claimed a staff member they're after. The person receiving the emails would have to mail everyone back to let them know (which again greatly increases his workload).

Ultimately, while this isn't the absolute perfect solution, it's probably the most practical one given what we have to work with. But I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing: jockeying for hires can be fun in it's own right! Instead of being apologetic, consider playful rubbing it in when you snare a staff member everyone else wanted.

[John]

Porting a point the Codgers made in the main waiver claim thread over here:

The one additional wrinkle I might add is that if your claim is successful and you actually hire someone, you go to the bottom of the waiver priority list starting with the next sim.

Successful claims will indeed put you to the bottom of the list, though it happens immediately after a successful claim rather than with the start of the next sim. This lets a team with top waiver priority claim one staff member - the pick of the litter, theoretically - without using his position to monopolize personnel hiring during one sim period.

Let me give an example: KAL has #1 priority, MAN #2, and CON #3. All three teams submit lists saying Coach A is their choice #1, Doctor B is choice #2, and Scout C is choice #3. Here's how it would play out once it's time for the next sim:

* KAL would get Coach A and be sent to the bottom of the waiver priority list
* MAN would get Doctor B and be sent to the bottom of the list, bumping KAL up a notch
* CON would get Scout C and be sent to the bottom of the list, bumping up both KAL and MAN
* NJ, who had been 4th on the waiver priority list, now moves up to the #1 spot starting with the next sim period.

Hopefully that explanation made sense

[Matt]

The real problem with the system comes for the guys who are at the bottom of the priority list. Do they list 24 guys to fill one opening?

Sadly, the game does not handle personel the proper way. These are free agents, and there should be a bidding process just as there is for free agent players.

Waivers is appropriate for players being released, but personel doesn't fit that description.

The present system is immediately aggravating. Many other systems would create too much work.

An overlooked possibility is that someone working only through the web interface decides on a claim, wins the claim, only to find out the coach in question is not interested in working for them. I found managers who were not willing to work at Monterey. What happens in this case, a person wins a claim, they had high priority, then you find out the person won't work in that locale or for that team? They don't get the coach, and someone behind them in priority, who maybe wanted that coach, notices thier claim and decides to claim someone else. Now the coach is back in the pool of personel, and a team that wanted him lost waiver priority to take a lesser coach. We'd need King Solomon to figure out that mess.

My option for the fairest system would be

first come, first serve, with a limit of ONE claim per sim period.

Quick, simple, no aggravation.

[Longshoremen]

An overlooked possibility is that someone working only through the web interface decides on a claim, wins the claim, only to find out the coach in question is not interested in working for them. I found managers who were not willing to work at Monterey. What happens in this case, a person wins a claim, they had high priority, then you find out the person won't work in that locale or for that team? They don't get the coach, and someone behind them in priority, who maybe wanted that coach, notices thier claim and decides to claim someone else. Now the coach is back in the pool of personel, and a team that wanted him lost waiver priority to take a lesser coach. We'd need King Solomon to figure out that mess.

The commissioner can edit them onto the roster.

[John]

Good question about what happens when a staff member doesn't want to work for your team. The answer in our current system is that web users have to submit their list of personnel to me through the Manager Tools before they post a claim in the thread. I will check on the contract demands/willingness to work for the team and report back. It's more work for both parties, but that tends to happen whenever people don't own the game (side note to Calzones: Glad to hear you and Tempe bought OOTP!).

I'm not in favor of the "grab bag" solution, though. It's important to me that every owner is given an equal opporunity to succeed, not just those that are fastest on the draw. Owners that aren't at their computers when I post a new league file won't have a chance to get the best personnel. That wouldn't do at all.

OOTP's shortcomings in this area sticks us with a problem, and now it's up to us to solve it. As I see it we have three paths to choose from:

• * Transparent: i.e. the system being presented right now. The advantage is that everything is laid out in the open, allowing owners to instantly have a clear picture on the status of their claim and leaving no chance for "shennanigens". The disadavantage is that, since your claims are viewable by everyone, other owners can use their higher priority to target personnel you were after. To some extent, though, this same process occurs in real life baseball. In my eyes at least it's part frustrating, part strategically interesting.
  * Hidden: People mail their claims directly to me. The advantage is that other owners don't know who you're targeting. The disadvantage is that you have no idea if your claim has been superseeded by someone else. It's simply not feasible to email owners every time one of their claims has been trumped by someone else. With a string of bad luck a team could go for several sims without successfully filling a position.
  * Half-and-half: People mail their claims to me, then I post a list of all claims made the night before the next sim. The advantage is that you at least have some idea about the status of your claim, and you don't have to worry about repeatedly submitting claims and being trumped over the course of one sim period. The disadvantage is that people will get a look at your claim list and have one shot at trumping you. It also adds a little extra work for me, but nothing too extreme.

There is one other option: a bidding system. Under this system, owners would bid against each other for the services of personnel using their team's available cash. The winning owner would have that amount of money subtracted from his team's cash reserves in addition to the cost of the new staff member's contract. This would solve the problem of submitting "doomed" waiver claims and could actually be fun and competitive. I'm cautious about this, though: we've yet to see how team finances will develop once play begins, so an out-of-game system that directly affects them is risky.

So to recap my position: I'm strongly opposed to "first-come/first-serve". I believe a transparent waiver system is best but am open to other variations. Bidding for personnel is an interesting option that could solve our problem or could create an even bigger one. Thought, people?

[John]

After consulting with the League Presidents, we agree that the best practical solution is the transparent waiver claim system originally proposed. As has been pointed out, it is far from perfect. It is, however, a reasonable compromise that allows owners to stay updated on claim status without overtaxing the commish or LPs. While the bidding option is intriguing, it's too dicey to play with team finances when we've yet to see how those will play out over the course of several seasons.

In response to some of the comments, I've made some adjustments to the way the system is handled. First and foremost, we'll no longer be using one thread to post claims. I've set up a Personnel Waiver Claims forum specifically for the purpose. In there you'll find two sticky threads: one describing the claim system (in greater detail than my original post), and one listing the current waiver priority.

Please read fully the new waiver instructions thread. It offers a better explanation of how the system works, how to properly post, plus a number of strategies to minimize your frustration and maximize your chances of getting a desired staff member. Note the example waiver claim and copy it's structure so that we can develop a standardized format for posts to the forum.

I've deleted the original sticky thread in this forum since it's now redundant. BADGERS: Please repost your waiver claim in the new forum!

This thread will remain open for questions, comments and complaints about the new personnel waiver claim system. I'll do my best to answer everything I can. This will be the system that we go with (imperfect as it is) but your input may lead to changes that will improve it. I ask that you try to make your criticism as constructive as possible so that we can make this system the best it can be.