The Three Man Rotation

[Morris Ragland]

"Suppose that a team used a three-man starting rotation, but limited each pitcher to 80 pitches a start or five innings."

http://www.billjamesonline.com/the_thre ... _rotation/

[roncollins]

With pitch limits of 90 and 100 pitches, I've been waiting for the 4-man rotation to come back. I can't actually figure out why it hasn't already.

[Borealis]

Interesting proposal. Would be a fun OOTP experiment...

[Mike Dunn]

With pitch limits of 90 and 100 pitches, I've been waiting for the 4-man rotation to come back. I can't actually figure out why it hasn't already.

I think its the same reason a lot of outmoded stuff in baseball takes years to change... no manager is willing to 'take the risk' and do things differently. It takes a bright and successful manager, probably confident in his job security, to do so. Like a Joe Maddon type.

[roncollins]

Alternately, it could take a guy who knows that his time is limited either way.

[Leones]

You could run a 4 man rotation but a 3 man rotation is verboten per Article V of the PEBA constitution:

"must have at least 4 pitchers slotted in as SP and 5 pitchers slotted in as RP"

[roncollins]

You could run a 4 man rotation but a 3 man rotation is verboten per Article V of the PEBA constitution:

"must have at least 4 pitchers slotted in as SP and 5 pitchers slotted in as RP"

So true. I'm not sure what I was thinking. :)

[Denny]

I don't know who this Bill James character is but he clearly has no place in our league!

[Apollos]

Interesting proposal. Would be a fun OOTP experiment...

I gave this a whirl with three excellent relievers to start off games in an OOTP solo game several versions ago and it almost seemed like cheating it was so effective. I wanna say it was prob around OOTP 8-9, but I distinctly remember my team winning the championship with a winning percentage upwards of .800 so I abandoned ship after the first go round (nobody wants it to be easy, right?).

[roncollins]

There has never been a question in my mind that a 4-man rotation with pitch counts and a decent bullpen is the way to go in real life. The only concern with it in modern OOTP is that I have a belief that Markus's injury and fatigue and algorithms are inappropriately harsh.

[Evas]

There has never been a question in my mind that a 4-man rotation with pitch counts and a decent bullpen is the way to go in real life. The only concern with it in modern OOTP is that I have a belief that Markus's injury and fatigue and algorithms are inappropriately harsh.

Yeah this is my concern too.

The article was very interesting and probably worth trying in real life. It could be a huge money saver for some small market team. I would like the Indians' chances if Kluber, Carrasco and Salazar were the only guys to ever get a start.

OOTP is not nearly real life though. I think this idea would end in tears in PEBA.

[Arroyos]

I don't know who this Bill James character is but he clearly has no place in our league!

Long before Bill James, the man who first proposed a 3 man rotation with limited pitch count was Earnshaw Cook, in his brilliant book Percentage Baseball (1964), that was just too far ahead of its time for anyone to pay attention. (Except an adolescent named Bill James.)

I read Cook in grad school in the 70s and started trying out his theories in my APBA league. Cook suggested starting each game with a short inning relief pitcher who would pitch only until he came to bat, usually in the 2d but not later than the 3d inning. (This was long before that most egregious of changes to the integrity of baseball, the horror of "the designated hitter.") So when the starting pitcher comes up, he is pinch hit for. Possible gain for the offense. Then the typical starting pitcher would enter the game and throw 5 or 6 innings, be pinch hit for, and the late inning specialist would finish the game. At least 2 of the pitchers' at bats would be taken by pinch hitters, which would increase offensive potential, 2 relievers would get regular work each game, and starting pitchers would only throw 5 or 6 innings, which means they would usually be rested enough to start every 3 days.

It worked brilliantly in my APBA league, but then APBA pitchers don't actually tire.

For what it's worth, Cook also suggested altering the traditional batting order to place your best hitters in the first two slots and then ordering the remaining players based on their on base percentage. Yup, the same batting order Bill James advocated in the 80s and which sabermetrics, with some minor revisions, now tells us would result in more offense. Cook was WAY ahead of his time!

He's a fun read. I recommend his book.

[Denny]

I had never heard of this Earnshaw Cook fellow, Bob....I will seek him out!

As a side note, there aren't enough kids named "Earnshaw" nowadays.

[Arroyos]

Here you go, Denny:

http://www.amazon.com/Percentage-Baseba ... 0262532158

[DanD]

Another difference I could see between OOTP mechanics and real life is that a pitcher that starts a game has a "stuff" rating based on his top 3 pitches (I believe).

So even though in real life a RP with two pitches could probably make it a time or two through the line up just fine, in OOTP he will have a "stuff" penalty if he doesn't have a decent 3rd pitch.

At least that's my understanding of how pitching works in OOTP

I mean, i guess you could still just use guys with 3+ pitches but I would think that kinda defeats the purpose somewhat.