Browns owner consults homeless man, drafts Manziel

[Matt]

Even in a bye week, the Browns find a way to lose.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... /76285078/

[John]

Even in a bye week, the Browns find a way to lose.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... /76285078/

He's well within his rights, of course, but given the context of his (purported) battles with alcohol and public perception ... yeah, that's probably not smart.

[roncollins]

Even in a bye week, the Browns find a way to lose.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf ... /76285078/

He's well within his rights, of course, but given the context of his (purported) battles with alcohol and public perception ... yeah, that's probably not smart.

Everyone has a complete right to be an idiot. Manziel just exercises it more often than the normal guy who happens to be a multi-million dollar first round draft pick. :)

[Mike Dunn]

And by partying like its 1999, Manziel manages to lose not only his starting job but even as back-up to McCown. He's now third string, likely a precursor to the door hitting him on the way out once their season ends.

[Matt]

And by partying like its 1999, Manziel manages to lose not only his starting job but even as back-up to McCown. He's now third string, likely a precursor to the door hitting him on the way out once their season ends.

I agree. When I saw he would be third string it seemed to signal the Browns are getting ready to move on.

[Evas]

And by partying like its 1999, Manziel manages to lose not only his starting job but even as back-up to McCown. He's now third string, likely a precursor to the door hitting him on the way out once their season ends.

I agree. When I saw he would be third string it seemed to signal the Browns are getting ready to move on.

The front office and coaching staff can follow him on the way out as far as I am concerned.

What an absolute dumpster fire of a franchise.

[Matt]

I think a large portion of the Browns problem remains the owner. Not that the front office doesn't deserve it's share of the blame as well. I actually think Pettine did a decent job with what he had to work with last year. And letting Hoyer go and giving him tweedle dee and tweedle dum for quarterbacks was terribly unfair. Hoyer probably makes the playoffs this year in Houston, and while he is no hof'er, he is light years better than anyone Cleveland can put under center.

[Evas]

I think a large portion of the Browns problem remains the owner. Not that the front office doesn't deserve it's share of the blame as well. I actually think Pettine did a decent job with what he had to work with last year. And letting Hoyer go and giving him tweedle dee and tweedle dum for quarterbacks was terribly unfair. Hoyer probably makes the playoffs this year in Houston, and while he is no hof'er, he is light years better than anyone Cleveland can put under center.

Hoyer was a distraction last year and does not have the talent for that to be worth while. I'll take McCown over him any day of the week.

That's the irony. For as much drama as there has been around Manziel, QB play just hasn't been the weak point on the Browns. Everything that was supposed to be a strength (Seconday, OL, etc.) has been just awful.

McCown is not a star, but he has a much more professional demeanor than Hoyer and has actually worked with Manziel. He'll work with the next kid too if there is one. He has been an absolutely perfect bridge QB and as been an asset instead of a distraction like Hoyer was.

[Matt]

So what was that start by Hoyer last year, 7 and 3 or something like that? With absolutely no weapons to work with. And the 3 ring Manziel circus surrounding him as a distraction.

It wasn't Hoyer job to be any bridge for Manziel. Hoyer is a young guy who wants the job. He got screwed by Cleveland.

Results matter. Count the wins. Hoyer is light years better than McCown. Easily.

[Evas]

So what was that start by Hoyer last year, 7 and 3 or something like that? With absolutely no weapons to work with. And the 3 ring Manziel circus surrounding him as a distraction.

It wasn't Hoyer job to be any bridge for Manziel. Hoyer is a young guy who wants the job. He got screwed by Cleveland.

Results matter. Count the wins. Hoyer is light years better than McCown. Easily.

Count the wins? Come on, that's not a good metric. I know you don't evaluate pitchers that way. Even going by that metric Hoyer is nothing great this year at 3-4.

Hoyer was supposed to mentor Manziel. He didn't. He caused locker room drama and wore out his welcome. That's why he isn't in Cleveland any more.

By the way, no one in Cleveland is clamoring for Brian Hoyer, even now.

[Matt]

Of course no one is clamoring for Hoyer. The Browns ran him out of town. Those 7 wins by Hoyer were more than the Browns had mustered in 11 of the previous 13 seasons. Can't have a winning quarterback in town, this is Cleveland, the Browns have a reputation to uphold!!!

McCown and his 6 lost fumbles are a much better fit for the Browns. FWIW, Browns qb's have turned the ball over 15 times, Hoyer just 5.

I root for Hoyer because he was screwed by the Browns, who fell for the Manziel hype and doubled down even after his miserable rookie year. Hoyer had pure garbage to throw to and won 7 games. His 10 wins the last two years are 2.5 times as many as McCown and Manziel COMBINED over the same period. I would take Hoyer any day of the week over those bums.

[Evas]

Of course no one is clamoring for Hoyer. The Browns ran him out of town. Those 7 wins by Hoyer were more than the Browns had mustered in 11 of the previous 13 seasons. Can't have a winning quarterback in town, this is Cleveland, the Browns have a reputation to uphold!!!

McCown and his 6 lost fumbles are a much better fit for the Browns. FWIW, Browns qb's have turned the ball over 15 times, Hoyer just 5.

I root for Hoyer because he was screwed by the Browns, who fell for the Manziel hype and doubled down even after his miserable rookie year. Hoyer had pure garbage to throw to and won 7 games. His 10 wins the last two years are 2.5 times as many as McCown and Manziel COMBINED over the same period. I would take Hoyer any day of the week over those bums.

In a vacuum, I could understand a preference for Hoyer over McCown or Manziel. But how was Hoyer "screwed" by the Browns?

He got benched because he was playing terribly. In the 4 games before his benching he threw 1 TD and had 8 picks. The Browns were still in the playoff hunt and were desperate to get better QB play. Hoyer had completely broken down mentally and was making terrible mistakes.

Was he screwed in the off season? Hoyer was a Free Agent that the Browns did not sign. I don't see how that is "screwing" him. There wasn't exactly a stampede to Hoyer's door in the off season either. He wound up signing for journeyman QB money ($4.75M guaranteed) because he's a journeyman QB.

By the way, the Browns had actually tried to extend Hoyer during the regular season during his hot start, but he wanted star QB money. The Browns didn't bite. I think that was a good move.

I wish Hoyer had worked out here. I really do. He's a local guy. He went to my High School at the same time as my brother for cripes sake. It would have been an absolutely perfect situation.

[Zephyrs]

I apologize but, I have read very little of this thread because I don't really care about football. However, this quarterback is such a hot topic that he dominated my family Thanksgiving dinner discussion. (As a side note, my family Thanksgiving happended on Friday because I worked a 24 hour shift on Thanksgiving.)

As a non-football flower, I find Mr. Manziel facilitating. As a side note, I was a rabid football follower before the Browns left town. Mt brother told me that the Browns were leaving for Baltimore. I told him at the time that if the Browns left Cleveland, I would never watch another football game ( I also remember asking him if the MLB would let the Yankees move to Saskatchewan.)

Anyway, this guy certainly seems to draw a ton of ire. I really don't have an opinion on him. After all, haven't a good number of successful quarterbacks taken a few years to become "all that they can be?" Isn't it unrealistic to assign ultimate success to players based on draft position and expectation. I am not saying Mr. Manziel will be a stud or a bust, just that it is too early to tell. Didn't Tom Brady spend a season or more as a back-up? What about Steve Young? Anyway, all I am saying is maybe it is too early to say a 22 year old quarterback to be washed up. How old was Steve Young or Tom Brady when they broke out?

[Evas]

Anyway, this guy certainly seems to draw a ton of ire. I really don't have an opinion on him. After all, haven't a good number of successful quarterbacks taken a few years to become "all that they can be?" Isn't it unrealistic to assign ultimate success to players based on draft position and expectation. I am not saying Mr. Manziel will be a stud or a bust, just that it is too early to tell. Didn't Tom Brady spend a season or more as a back-up? What about Steve Young? Anyway, all I am saying is maybe it is too early to say a 22 year old quarterback to be washed up. How old was Steve Young or Tom Brady when they broke out?

From a pure football point of view, I completely agree with you. Manziel is a prospect. He will absolutely need time and patience to even have a shot at developing.

He was poised to get that starting Monday until his partying got his short leash yanked. His biggest challenge is acting like an adult at this point.

[Matt]

Anyway, this guy certainly seems to draw a ton of ire. I really don't have an opinion on him. After all, haven't a good number of successful quarterbacks taken a few years to become "all that they can be?" Isn't it unrealistic to assign ultimate success to players based on draft position and expectation. I am not saying Mr. Manziel will be a stud or a bust, just that it is too early to tell. Didn't Tom Brady spend a season or more as a back-up? What about Steve Young? Anyway, all I am saying is maybe it is too early to say a 22 year old quarterback to be washed up. How old was Steve Young or Tom Brady when they broke out?

From a pure football point of view, I completely agree with you. Manziel is a prospect. He will absolutely need time and patience to even have a shot at developing.

He was poised to get that starting Monday until his partying got his short leash yanked. His biggest challenge is acting like an adult at this point.

This is actually the way quarterbacks used to be developed. Smart coaches and GMs understand this. Joe Montana and John Elway both sat and learned behind Steve Deberg. Steve Young was a little different because he was in USFL before coming to SF. Brett Favre sat. Terry Bradshaw.

Bur that's not today's NFL which wants immediate gratification. Look at Mariotta and Winston starting as rookies. Carr and Bridgewater last year.

I guess some of it is salary structure, length of rookie contracts, etc, but I still find the idea of throwing a rookie qb to the wolves a bit repulsive. I think that doing so has ruined numerous young quarterbacks.

I even heard one commentator, I think it was former GM Bill Polian, lament the fact that the league is doing a horrible job of developing offensive linemen these days. It's all about win now, what have you done for me lately. Coaches don't get 4 or 5 yrs to implement their program. Look at Chip Kelly, who is about to get run out of Philadelphia.

The present culture of the NFL makes it even more important that a guy coming out of college have a certain level of maturity, something Manziel continues to struggle with.