Free Agency is BULLSHIT

[Matt]

I targeted 4 players

Closer Rico signs with Yamamoto for less than a third his asking price, despite my offer that was more than 4 times what he is now getting

Catcher Horiuchi signs a one year deal for 700,000 despite my multi year deal worth nearly 2 mil per

Reliever Rodriguez signs for 2.25 for one year, I offered a multi year deal worth nearly 2.7

Imada signs for 3 mil per season for 3 years, despite my offer that was worth over 4 mil per

BULLSHIT
BULLSHIT
BULLSHIT
and BULLSHIT

Between this and the waiver wire for personel, I am quickly getting fed up.

[Longshoremen]

I targeted 4 players

Closer Rico signs with Yamamoto for less than a third his asking price, despite my offer that was more than 4 times what he is now getting

Catcher Horiuchi signs a one year deal for 700,000 despite my multi year deal worth nearly 2 mil per

Reliever Rodriguez signs for 2.25 for one year, I offered a multi year deal worth nearly 2.7

Imada signs for 3 mil per season for 3 years, despite my offer that was worth over 4 mil per

BULLSHIT
BULLSHIT
BULLSHIT
and BULLSHIT

Between this and the waiver wire for personel, I am quickly getting fed up.

There are lots of things that factor into this.

I lost a player to Charolotte who I offered more guaranteed money to per year, I offered bonuses to boot, & I had a spot in the rotation guaranteed for him. Like in real life you don't know what motivates a player. It's quite random.

[Matt]

In real life the only motivation is money.

Here I had higher bids on ALL 4 of the players I targeted at the major league level, and did not even get 1 of them. That is totally SCREWED.

In addition, I offered a bunch of minor league contracts, figuring I might get some of them. I got a whole bunch, except the one position I really needed, left field. ALL the left fielders I targeted took minor league contracts elsewhere. Could I at least get ONE? NO.

This is turning into a big waste of time.

[Longshoremen]

In real life the only motivation is money.

Well that's just not true. Omar Linares and Yulieski Gourriel two of the best baseball players ever produced by Cuba during the Castro era have both turned down boat loads of money to play in the MLB. Why? Because they were loyal to the revolution.

Many Japanese players have ignored the advances of the majors, for a whole host of reasons.

Here I had higher bids on ALL 4 of the players I targeted at the major league level, and did not even get 1 of them. That is totally SCREWED.

In addition, I offered a bunch of minor league contracts, figuring I might get some of them. I got a whole bunch, except the one position I really needed, left field. ALL the left fielders I targeted took minor league contracts elsewhere. Could I at least get ONE? NO.

Players that play the outfield can play any OF position. Having good ratings in the three OF categories (Range, Error, & Arm) means a player won't have many issues playing any OF position. The only caviot is field size: if you have a large CF the CF should have speed, if you have a large LF the LF should have speed, etc. Typically your CF should have a bit more speed.

You can make any OF into a LF, and even get him rated quickly at the position. In the game go to a player's profile and select "set position to" at the bottom. (Or if you don't have the game have the commissioner do it for you.) You can make any of your CF's & RF's a LF. Then simply make sure they the ones on the 40 man roster play that position in as many spring training games as possible. (During spring training the roster expands to 40) They will begin to be rated at the new position. Anytime you want a player to learn a new position set him to that position and play him at that position in Spring Training ; he'll learn the new position the fastest in Spring Training.


Minor leaguers (Or for that matter Major Leaguers later) who won't be able to be on the roster of 40 that go to Spring Training can still be set to a new position. Set them to that position for the season and have them start (if possible) they'll learn the position at a slower pace, but they will learn it. If they are not starters they will lear the position even slower as they will only gain experience in the few times they get to play.

This is turning into a big waste of time.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Matt]

Major league free agents who are offered 3 times the money don't head to Japan. Would not ever happen.

I would not be ticked had I just got one. If I had lost all 4 to higher bids there would have been no issue. But I had higher bids on FOUR and did not get a single one. Couple this with getting the highest salary in the league on the 19th pick taken, and it has become quite obvious that there is a serious bias in the game against my team that will make this a completely wasted effort.

[John]

Just addressing the issue of what influences the decisions of free agents, here's a lifted passage from the OOTP manual:

Money talks, and the configuration of your offer has the biggest impact on whether or not a player will accept a contract offer. However, above and beyond the contract terms, players are affected by a number of factors when considering a contract, including:

• The distance of the franchise from the player’s hometown
• The level of the league (good players might not be interested in playing in a low-level league)
• Your team’s reputation
• Your personal reputation with the player
• Your team’s recent performance
• The likelihood of playing time
• The player’s morale (especially with contract extensions)

In addition to these factors, players have certain personality traits such as greed, loyalty, work ethic, and leadership. These characteristics also affect players’ responses to contract offers.

So there are a number of factors that come into play here. A particular one to note is the likelihood of playing time. Young players in particular may be inclined to sign for less money if they believe they'll get more playing time and earn the chance for a bigger payday down the line.

Speaking as an owner who lost out on all 5 of his FA bids, I'm actually quite impressed with how the game handles free agency. Reading up on it in the manual and over at the OOTP forums, there really are some amazing nuances factored into the system.

I think the problem is with us: we're setting out own expectations to low! I know I thought that I'd get my big 1B FA since I offered him 4 years/$19M and was dismayed when he signed for 2 years/$9M. But after reading up on it at the forums, I now understand his reasoning: as a young player who knows he's good, he prefers the shorter contract because he believes his performance will lead to a much bigger contract in a couple of years. So offering more years actually hurt my offer! And though I'm seriously bummed about not getting him, I've got to admit... that's pretty cool that the game's smart enough to take that into consideration!

[Matt]

Playing time did figure into my consideration of offers, which is why I went after a closer and a 1b, both where front line jobs were guaranteed. Two of the players, the closer and reliever, were from Mexico, one Monterey, making Laredo the closest franchise to their hometown. As for bigger paydays down the line with the younger players, I also took that into consideration by offering 3 or 4 yr deals with player options on the end so they would not be locked in. On one, I included a sweet bonus, and lost to a team that gave a bonus 1.3 mil less than what i offered. So, from my standpoint, I am quite unimpressed with how the game handled free agency.

[Longshoremen]

You keep talking about what you offered them, but that is not the measuring stick. Especially for international players for whom you're already at a disadvantage because your team & league are not in their country.

It's not always about how much more you offered, but the difference between what they asked for & what you offfered. Also, the difference between your team and the team they signed with.

You talk about trying to sign a closer, but you already have a player listed at closer. Left fielders, but you have five major league outfielders.

[Coqui]

I think Eddie nailed it here. There is no way an FA outfielder is going to sign with a team that already has five on the roster. I was impressed with the way FA signing went. I offered two low ball contracts and got shot down, missed on one that was decent and signed a bunch of minor league "talent." It is frustrating to miss on players but you have to look at the whole picture.

And I have some OF talent if you really want it.

[Alan Ehlers]

I think the point of any SIM game like fantasy is to look at any potential problems and seek solutions. It can get frustrating when you lose a player but we need to see if it is something in the game before we start getting angry. Granted it does not help anyone now but in the future it will. The one motivating factor in anything I ever do is to seek solutions and I can see everyones point but before we get angry lets look if we have a glitch if we dont then the players were motivated by something else

[Matt]

The left fielders is a non issue. I sought MINOR LEAGUE left fielders. A 16 year old prospect when I had 3 left fielders in my entire system.

If the sim is really that smart it would have seen that a 4 star closer would have started right away over a 1 star prospect. It would also have seen that a good htting 1b would have started over two platoon type players. And a 3 star closer signs with the rebuilding Knights who have a 5 star filthy closer? So tell me where there is any rhyme or reason to that? And a Mexican signs with a Japanese team despite an American team offering 4 times the money? I'm not buying it. The only player of the 4 I targeted that would not have started was the catcher, so his signing elsewhere makes some sense. None of the rest make any sense at all.

[John]

I can't answer definitively how OOTP's statistical engine determines where free agents sign, but I'll agree with the Longshoremen that I was personally impressed with what I saw of how the system worked (and admittedly that's without knowing what everyone who missed out was bidding). There seemed to be a spread that made sense, with some players staying "close to home", some going for the money, some going where they're likely to start, etc.

The more important point made by the Longshoremen is that, while it's certainly frustrating to miss on players, keeping a bigger perspective is important. There are going to be days you win and days you lose in this game, just like with any game. Getting too low on the "lose" days is only going to make the experience miserable for you (and for us as well by extension).

I know I was disappointed last night when the file and reports were finished uploading... I finally got to check the free agent results and found I had lost out on all five of my offers! But you know, I quickly resolved not to be discouraged. There are a myriad of ways to improve your team in this game - Calzones, you've been demonstrating one way with your highly successful trade season - and I just refuse to be bummed out because I lost on some free agents that may or may not pan out. There's always tomorrow!

The big thing I want to impart, though, are my feelings about handling problems. We've got 24 passionate baseball fans in this league; it's only logical to expect that sometimes those passions will run a bit hot. I accept that and I accept that it's my responsibility to address concerns when they arise.

However I'm also the Commissioner of this league, which gives me a little bit of clout (obviously not enough to get the FAs I want, but hey...). And one thing that matters to me is that people bring their complaints to me first rather than taking them to the forums. I'm very much the kind of person that likes to work out problems one-on-one rather than airing things out in public. You'd be amazed how much can get resolved when two reasonable people talk together. By the same token, it's amazing how much damage can be done to the unity of a team (which is what we all are here) when people let frustration get the best of them.

So I'm asking that if you're feeling upset about missing on your targeted free agents - or any other problem that has or will arise - that you do me the personal favor of bringing your complaint to me and not here to the forum. Let's leave this as a place where people can come to have fun. I'll take the blows I need to behind the scenes, and I absolutely promise to take every matter that's brought to my attention seriously. Just give me the chance.

[Matt]

John, there is no shot directed at you in this.

But I'm definately frustrated with a game that has decided to definately have an anti-Laredo bias. Upset about losing free agents? NO. Upset about getting screwed when I had higher bids on FOUR and did not get any of them, YES. Everyone lost out on free agents. I challenge one person to come forward that had FOUR players where he bid higher than what they signed for go elsewhere. The Mexican closer is eating sushi when I offered him 4 times as much to play in the freaking taco capital of the United States, a market that is 96% mexican and where he would have been a fan favorite. There is not one person that can offer a reasonable explanation for that.

I worked my butt off through trades to get myself in a position where the needs I was left with could easily be addressed through free agency and stay within my budget. Of 4 major needs on my team, if I had simply filled one through free agency I would have been in a position to find other solutions at the other three needs. The fact that the game has taken a decidedly anti-Laredo bias has left me in a foul mood. The only option I am left with at this point is to blow the team up and start over and avoid the free agent market completely in the future.

[John]

I know you're not trying to take personal shots and I don't intend to take it as such. Still, it's important to exercise restraint when things pop up. Certainly a subject header like the one for this thread is going to get things off on the wrong foot. For my part, the comment, "This is turning into a big waste of time," isn't a lot of fun to read. Ultimately we're talking about a game here and I wouldn't presume to build it up as more than it is, but I'm certainly hoping PEBA isn't going to be viewed by its owners as a waste of time.

I'm guessing you're just a little over-frustrated when you're talking about the anti-Laredo bias and that you know there's nothing going on like that. Heck, if the game really did hate you it must hate me too... and I'm running the darn thing! Sometimes we just hit a stretch of bad luck; fortunately I find that what goes around comes around and these things even out over time.

In your situation, Calzones, I'd encourage you not to change the course you're taking your team. There's no doubt that few teams have made a greater impact in the trade market. You've done a great job positioning yourself for success. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and I doubt missing on these free agents will keep you from contending if you put your mind to it.

I'd also say don't limit yourself in the tactics you'll be using in the future. You've had a couple setbacks early on with personnel and free agents, but the worst thing you could do would be to close the door to those avenues of improvement in the future. Trading will get you far, but in a league this diverse in options you'll want to have every weapon in your arsenal at the ready.

Just generally speaking, I'd like everyone to understand that I love the level of passion I've seen from you guys. I just ask that when things go bad, take a deep breath and a step back before you come in anger to the forums. Most problems look a lot more solvable when you've taken a moment to reevaluate them.