Trade between HYA and SS

[Evas]

Shin Seiki receives:
SP Tetsuo Okazaki
2B Mitsuhide Sato
HYA's 2nd Round Draft Pick

HYA receives:
2B Ton Matsumoto
Shin Seiki's 4th Round Draft Pick
Shin Seiki's 5th Round Draft Pick
Shin Seiki's 6th Round Draft Pick

[Neil Thomas]

Shin Seiki receives:
SP Tetsuo Okazaki
2B Mitsuhide Sato
HYA's 2nd Round Draft Pick

HYA receives:
2B Ton Matsumoto
Shin Seiki's 4th Round Draft Pick
Shin Seiki's 5th Round Draft Pick
Shin Seiki's 6th Round Draft Pick

I confirm the trade

[Evas]

Dan,

Please make the following roster moves for me:

Place Okazaki in the #4 slot of my rotation, making the start on 8-21-2017.
Place Sato on my LRS roster

[Greg A]

I don't get this trade for hya. I understand saving money but adding your 2 pick is just ridiculous IMO.

[Neil Thomas]

I have looked over the players for next years draft and it looks paltry at best. I can easily sign players who are free agents with the same amount of talent with that pick.

[Mike Dunn]

I have looked over the players for next years draft and it looks paltry at best. I can easily sign players who are free agents with the same amount of talent with that pick.

Sorry, that's wrong. Perhaps you can grab FAs with the same amount of talent as some of the lower picks you traded away. But not the second rounder. In fact, the very fact that the draft pool looks 'paltry at best' makes the second rounder even more valuable in comparison with the lower picks you've traded away. An astute move for the Evas, but it makes no sense for a club like Shinkansen that needs to rebuild.

[Aaron Tassano]

I have looked over the players for next years draft and it looks paltry at best. I can easily sign players who are free agents with the same amount of talent with that pick.

Sorry, that's wrong. Perhaps you can grab FAs with the same amount of talent as some of the lower picks you traded away. But not the second rounder. In fact, the very fact that the draft pool looks 'paltry at best' makes the second rounder even more valuable in comparison with the lower picks you've traded away. An astute move for the Evas, but it makes no sense for a club like Shinkansen that needs to rebuild.

I think it's tough for people joining the league to realize how high the level of play is here. Mark from Seoul used to do the same thing..."well, this draft is no good!" and deal away his picks (to Kevin). You can get away with looking at a draft for 10 minutes and deciding something like that when you're playing solo, but the level of play in this league is waaaay too high for that.

[Aaron Tassano]

Might need a trade veto interim rule for people that are new to the league. Wasn't a rule made after Kevin made series of trades with Mark?

[Mike Dunn]

I think it's tough for people joining the league to realize how high the level of play is here. Mark from Seoul used to do the same thing..."well, this draft is no good!" and deal away his picks (to Kevin). You can get away with looking at a draft for 10 minutes and deciding something like that when you're playing solo, but the level of play in this league is waaaay too high for that.

I suggested to Jonas after his initial trade with Kevin to seek out a veteran owner in PEBA to get some trade guidance. I did this publicly in the forum and privately by PM (after he'd sought me out for advice). A PEBA owner has no vested interest and should be able to help out.

I then learned that Jonas is apparently getting trade 'help' from Mark K., formerly of Seoul. I learned this because I started getting PMs from Mark himself, back on the forums but without a team, claiming to be able to negotiate deals on Shinkansen's behalf. I'm not sure if this was done with Jonas's permission, nor do I know if Mark was involved with this deal.

Might need a trade veto interim rule for people that are new to the league. Wasn't a rule made after Kevin made series of trades with Mark?

The League Constitution states:

Factors which may hold up a trade include (but are not limited to) a.) one or more violations of the trade restrictions listed above, b.) a massive and patently obvious imbalance in returns, c.) extremely unusual structuring (e.g. 1 player for 10), or d.) inclusion of a player currently rehabbing a long-term injury.

Individual GMs who feel a trade meets the criteria for disallowing should PM the Commissioner privately to express their opinion. If a sufficient number of complaints are registered, the Commissioner will discuss the matter with the GMs involved in the trade before making a final determination on the fate of the deal. Public complaints of trades will not be tolerated.

[Evas]

I think the idea of a second round pick is more appealing than the talent that has actually been available there over the past several years. That pick is likely to be about the #15 pick or so. The 15th best player in the past few and the next few drafts hasn't been that great. Last year I drafted Hideyori Tanaka in pretty much that same spot. He looks like he could be a decent arm in 3-4 years, or he could flame out. He has 2 pitches and some wouldn't consider him as starter at all. He is a decent prospect, but that is all. That is the sort of talent we having been looking at in those rounds: not even close to studs.

I am eating over $6M of salary and giving up 3 picks in exchange for one pick upgrade and maybe 10 starts from a mediocre old pitcher. If you think the deal isn't a fair exchange, feel free to ask Dan to veto it. I really don't care at this point. I don't see anyone else lining up to eat Okazaki's salary.

And further for as much derision as Mark's moves in SEO got, they certainly accomplished the job of establishing a solid core. There are different strategies that can be used to run a team. You have had success and so has he. I'll take an aggressive, engaged, risk taking owner as good for the league any day of the week.

[Neil Thomas]

I am going to put my 2 cents back into this...So you all know This is Mark from Seoul. Jonas reached out to me to improve his team while he is away and it has gone through Dan.

He was going to move the player anyway as I talked to him about shaving salary.

Might need a trade veto interim rule for people that are new to the league. Wasn't a rule made after Kevin made series of trades with Mark?

I am certainly glad a rule was made because of improvements I had made for Seoul. If you look at where Seoul was before I took over and when I left you would see a massive improvement. My ways are not as bad as you think. And many of you when those trades happened were directly involved in talks at the same time.

Factors which may hold up a trade include (but are not limited to) a.) one or more violations of the trade restrictions listed above, b.) a massive and patently obvious imbalance in returns, c.) extremely unusual structuring (e.g. 1 player for 10), or d.) inclusion of a player currently rehabbing a long-term injury.

Individual GMs who feel a trade meets the criteria for disallowing should PM the Commissioner privately to express their opinion. If a sufficient number of complaints are registered, the Commissioner will discuss the matter with the GMs involved in the trade before making a final determination on the fate of the deal. Public complaints of trades will not be tolerated.

I see this and what is happening in the forum a direct violation of this rule. Publicly asking for a veto goes against this. It is a balanced trade, no imbalance of returns, not an extreme unusual structure, and no injured players.

From Arsenal

I think it's tough for people joining the league to realize how high the level of play is here. Mark from Seoul used to do the same thing..."well, this draft is no good!" and deal away his picks (to Kevin). You can get away with looking at a draft for 10 minutes and deciding something like that when you're playing solo, but the level of play in this league is waaaay too high for that.

Just so you know and you knew previously because I have stated it on the forums many many times, that I spends hours looking over drafts for the next 1-3 years. I have never looked and said oh well draft is crap trade away. Now if you look at the quality of player I would get for that pick. You really think that number 2 pick is better then 3 players? Plus what would he be asking? When i looked over the team as i was handed the reins for a bit was that he was not dealing with any draft picks at all. 0 were being negotiated with, and I saw the reason. the talent was useless. They would have been fillers at best. Why waste money or a few mil over a 2nd rounder when i can fill with guys from FA?

To finish off again I have let Jonas know what I was doing, And we all know that its not the trade that bothers you most. It has always been said people hate when players trade with Evas. That is the main reason this has been brought up. The trade was with Evas and no one else. I have seen it personally before. Straight from PEBA gms to LRS gms. Any other team it would have been ok.

[Mike Dunn]

If you think the deal isn't a fair exchange, feel free to ask Dan to veto it. I really don't care at this point. I don't see anyone else lining up to eat Okazaki's salary.

So you're clear on my view, Kevin, this deal is not even close to being veto-able. I just don't understand Shinkansen's strategy in doing this. I firmly believe that the thinner a draft, the more potentially valuable the higher picks. I quoted the Constitution regarding trade problems because Aaron had mentioned "a trade veto interim rule."

I see this and what is happening in the forum a direct violation of this rule. Publicly asking for a veto goes against this. It is a balanced trade, no imbalance of returns, not an extreme unusual structure, and no injured players.

No one asked for a veto. Again, Aaron mentioned the need for a rule and I quoted and highlighted the current rule. There has always been discussion of completed trades in the forums, and always should be.

But Mark -- this I'm going to say publicly. I didn't like getting PMs from you out of the blue to talk trade and you don't even identify what team you are supposedly controlling. Then I don't even know whether you are doing this with the permission of the owner, or of the Commissioner. I still don't know. We haven't seen anything from the Commish -- does he even know you're logging in as Jonas? Then you have the nerve to lecture the rest of us:

And we all know that its not the trade that bothers you most. It has always been said people hate when players trade with Evas. That is the main reason this has been brought up. The trade was with Evas and no one else. I have seen it personally before. Straight from PEBA gms to LRS gms. Any other team it would have been ok.

Yes-- I look extremely closely at all trades between the Evas and NEW owners. Why? Because the very moment I stepped in as the new Ghosts owner seven seasons ago he was PMing me with offers, trying to get the team's very best young player, Nobu Hasegawa. He offered, for example, a complicated three-way deal involving multiple players and picks, made it sound palatable to all, but it would have netted him Hasegawa. It would have a stupid deal for me and I saw it for what it was -- trying to take advantage of a new owner. It left a sour taste in my mouth about being in the LRS, and I almost felt like quitting immediately.

So, Mark, if there is a different standard about Shin Seiki deals, its earned. Got any other lectures for us?

[Neil Thomas]

Well first off i will say this , When i messaged you I should have been logged in under Jonas, that was one mistake.

Now to lecture, I was in the league many seasons and every trade i made, multiple owners complained about every trade with Evas, even the PEBA gms. Look where Seoul is now and how well the players are doing...The way I trade works and it works the way i want it to work. I don't do trades to make you or other Gms happy.

I see this and what is happening in the forum a direct violation of this rule. Publicly asking for a veto goes against this. It is a balanced trade, no imbalance of returns, not an extreme unusual structure, and no injured players.

I am deeply sorry he left a sour taste in your mouth when you joined the league. But no matter what moves I made when I was in Seoul or the move I made for Jonas (with his permission to do so) were for the better of the team. As long as I am not breaking an rules then Comments should be left to PMs.

[Mike Dunn]

So here's a question for the Commissioner: does an owner (in this case, Jonas) have the right to simply hand over control of a team to someone else? Was this done with your approval?

As for that supposed quote, Mark, I have no recollection saying it, but if I did, I'm sure it was specific to the trade at hand and that you're now taking it out of context. Kevin has every right to try to get favorable deals out of all owners, even new ones. That's his right. Its our right to look closely at the deals, and to voice our thoughts. It's been that way as long as I've been here, which pre-dates your arrival here. But now you waltz back in after leaving your original team, take over another team without any official announcement, start making up quotes of things I supposedly said, and imply that I'm out of line.

I apologize to everyone else for letting this devolve into a pissing contest. I'm done here.

[Neil Thomas]

But now you waltz back in after leaving your original team, take over another team without any official announcement, start making up quotes of things I supposedly said, and imply that I'm out of line.

I had to leave my original team because of a death in the family and had to move up north for a few..I didn't waltz but gently walked back to the league I loved so much. Trust me I am not making anything up and i think you know that. If the Dan thinks it should be reversed that is up to Dan. I will sit back help Jonas until a team opens up for me.