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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:15 pm 
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At this point we need five GM's. Kure, Hyakujuu, Seoul, Kawaguchi, the teams Charlie or whoever he is was 'running', as well as for the Ghosts. Plus Charleston in PEBA.

So he was using Kawaguchi to sell to his other teams, or was he just trashing the whole league?
Hyakujuu (60-84)
Kure (53-91)
Kawaguchi (51-93)
Seoul (68-76)

Never mind. It isn't important. I also volunteer to keep one of the teams running until the positions can be filled. I suggest that we keep the LRS on life support in this manner until we can be replaced. Meanwhile, shut down trades between leagues until the scandal is over.


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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:15 pm 
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The worst thing about this is how Charlie gained the trust of so many core members of our group, especially in the LRS, and then set flame to this endeavor that means so much to so many of us.

I'm very sorry that this has happened, but I am especially upset for those of you in the LRS who counted Charlie (and his various personalities) as one of your own, only for him to abuse your faith and so massively let you down. I don't expect that he will apologize to you for his behavior, so please accept the remorse of the Board and know that we will do everything in our power to make this right by you.

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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:21 pm 
Yeah this hurts because I just picked up a 10 mil contract and was dropping a 22 mil contract...Now I have to look at the whole team from top to bottom all from scratch now. Really hurt my off season as well as others i am sure


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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:26 pm 
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Zephyrs wrote:
I am speechless. I typed 3 different comments and deleted all of them before hitting submit. :-#



Yeah, it has taken a lot of self control to keep a G rating with my thoughts on this.

To hold me totally blameless is wrong. I take a lot of the blame here. I missed more signs than I can even begin to detail here. In the end sometimes all you can do is take a lesson learned for what it is, a lesson learned.

I can say though for whatever my other faults, I'm not a quitter. With the help of the Board as well as our other great owners in this league, I am determined to get us through this.


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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:30 pm 
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Calzones wrote:
I can say though for whatever my other faults, I'm not a quitter. With the help of the Board as well as our other great owners in this league, I am determined to get us through this.

Matt, I think I can speak for all of us (real souls) - We are all behind you and we will all make this work!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:38 pm 
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I have been watching Matt and the Board handle this situation with aplomb. Matt jumped right on the case as soon as he caught the hint of foul play. It's not longer my place to determine future policy, but I still can voice my opinions, and my opinion is this: With people as dedicated as Matt, Jeff, Dan, and Frank leading the way, I don't see Charlie Cooper being the death knell for the LRS.

I believe it's going to end up being quite the opposite situation; I believe the LRS is poised to become stronger in Charlie Cooper's wake. He's done us a favor. He's shown us how passionate our core LRS GMs feel about their league. That's enough right there for me to want to fight for it.

I say don't let the cheat take away anything from us. If we all pitch in - PEBA and LRS GMs right alongside Matt and the Board - I'm certain we can find new members who will compliment the fabulous LRS GMs we already have. That's just an observer's opinion, mind you. Still, I believe it can be done, and I reiterate my feeling that the LRS can emerge stronger from going through the process.

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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:11 pm 
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I will agree to stay on for a time if it helps save the LRS.

Despite that offer, I disagree with John's post above. I believe the integrity of the LRS has been irreparably compromised. I'm not sure how it can be undone. Charlie made so many trades that it is impossible to salvage the competitive balance of the league. This includes the tanking deals that prompted the earlier phoney Transmitter owner from being booted out. I think a poll of Kevin, Ron H., Ron C., Greg, Mark and Patrick is in order.

In addition, it has proven impossible so far for Matt to find a new Ghosts owner. With version 15 coming out shortly, it will likely prove equally difficult to fill all the scumbag's four teams unless we move immediately to v15, and that will likely not be good for PEBA.

Finally, Matt you should be applauded for catching this and dealing with it. No one blames you nor should you blame yourself.

I do believe no one who readily admits to being in high school should ever be allowed in PEBA. How that could be police, I have no idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:27 pm 
I wonder how true his potential job with that baseball team was... if you are willing to be that fraudulent just imagine what he did to get that job.


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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:29 pm 
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That was a big red flag for me... I was having a hard time buying the Red Sox deal...

I don't know when the 'Persona' took over all four teams, but of the 19+ trades since just before New Years between the four teams, there are a few that have happened since the end of the NT Cup (and this doesn't count the trades Charleston has made...). Perhaps one place to start rectifying things is for the LRS owners to look at those deals and ask if they help or hinder each team. Obviously we can't go backwards 'in-season', but perhaps any perceived wrongs during the off-season can be...

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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:44 pm 
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This may not be as bad as first thought.

Jonas and Rick are probably in the clear. I am vetting every damned IP address, and on those two I get hits in the cities where they say they live.

Not so with Dylan, who was supposedly from outside the NY City area, but I am getting IP hits in the same general vicinity as Charlie, and the most duplicate addresses, and nothing from New York. Same networks too, such as Comcast. For instance, one, under Dylan, comes up as Coatesville, Pa. Same general vicinity as Charlie. That's after two previous exact matches in Downington.

Donald is proving more elusive to pinpoint. And the fact that both his and Charlies team password were changed 20 mins apart from the same IP (in the forums) is damning enough. But if I can clear him, I will.

Another issue is how the website is capturing the IP addresses. I don't know the specifics of that. And whether the forums are more accurate than statslab. For instance, in Dylan's Ip addresses, one I get comes up as an Automobile Insurance place in Atlanta. That would be the previous GM, James, who works in insurance in Atlanta, Ga.

I'll be up awhile working on it. But I am going to go eat first.


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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:17 am 
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A lot to digest here. I would caution that it's not terribly difficult to spoof an ip address. For our purposes it's probably good enough to rely on them though.

I'm not too worried about damage done to the league by all this trade business. LRS/PEBA owners don't strike me as the sort who would shy away from a challenge, even one as big as this. Frankly I'm a bit relieved that this wild west era of trading will likely be gone for a while. It was excessive and had to be difficult for those trying to run the sims for us.

Seems like our biggest problem will be finding responsible new owners. As we are a 'writing league' not having humans is an issue for which I am out of ideas at the moment but will give it some thought. I don't know any other baseball fans who'd seem a good fit right now.

One way we could insulate the league from this sort of thing in the future is to require articles for every player traded; say 250 words per player. ( then we could monitor hospitals for carpal tunnel patients to identify these cases :) )

If the decision is that this is the end of the LRS I can live with that and I'll get back in line for the next PEBA opening that comes up (or whatever new league we create). I'd miss my club but would trade the club to hang around you guys a bit more if that's ok with you. I'd be willing to bet that the other LRS guys would be willing to do whatever it takes to keep the LRS afloat and really appreciate the PEBA owners who have and would offer to help as well.

For my part I'm wiling to go forward with this version of the LRS and conform to whatever unique rules we may nee dot keep it going. If it's decided that it's not viable then please consider me for the next PEBA opening that comes up. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:28 am 
Battousai wrote:
A lot to digest here. I would caution that it's not terribly difficult to spoof an ip address. For our purposes it's probably good enough to rely on them though.

I'm not too worried about damage done to the league by all this trade business. LRS/PEBA owners don't strike me as the sort who would shy away from a challenge, even one as big as this. Frankly I'm a bit relieved that this wild west era of trading will likely be gone for a while. It was excessive and had to be difficult for those trying to run the sims for us.

Seems like our biggest problem will be finding responsible new owners. As we are a 'writing league' not having humans is an issue for which I am out of ideas at the moment but will give it some thought. I don't know any other baseball fans who'd seem a good fit right now.

One way we could insulate the league from this sort of thing in the future is to require articles for every player traded; say 250 words per player. ( then we could monitor hospitals for carpal tunnel patients to identify these cases :) )

If the decision is that this is the end of the LRS I can live with that and I'll get back in line for the next PEBA opening that comes up (or whatever new league we create). I'd miss my club but would trade the club to hang around you guys a bit more if that's ok with you. I'd be willing to bet that the other LRS guys would be willing to do whatever it takes to keep the LRS afloat and really appreciate the PEBA owners who have and would offer to help as well.

For my part I'm wiling to go forward with this version of the LRS and conform to whatever unique rules we may nee dot keep it going. If it's decided that it's not viable then please consider me for the next PEBA opening that comes up. :)


For me I would agree that many of us would go to PEBA in a heartbeat a sit is the land of opportunists as we Gms dream of the PEB chance. We are a sister league and we have had quite the issues for the past few seasons and it does get harder for teams to Fill with GMs. We are a writing league and many people tend to stay away. To me even though PEBA gms are willing to fill the shoes of the Teams empty it takes away from the LRS. You have Gms doing double duty that could last months this in turn no matter how generous this is it is not fair to those GMs. Basically we have ghost teams with Gms. The damage done is severe. Not just to LRS but PEBA , close voting for all star and end of the year votes are now tampered. one man had up to 4 votes.

The teams he had control over he manipulated in sever fashion which also manipulates the teams he was trading with. he crippled the Transmitters with -65 million, he crippled Kure with -25 million, he was stripping Seoul of its best players and they are at -577k , He wanted to make a power team and that was Hya, so he jacked with the league and had himself other teams (Mules) to get talent from. This now has already effected our off season, 2019 season, 2020 season and draft and any trades he has done. If I have a vote in this I would vote for LRS gms await PEBA teams. If that means some of us sit out 6 months then so be it. But it will take way too much work to fill these teams as it has proven in the past to be a pain in the a... I am with Matt on how angry I am and that I love this league to death but it really pisses me off when someone cares so little about hurting so many.


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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:13 am 
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Just catching up to things now. Wow.

I'm not sure why someone would do that. It's just... stupid. What good is winning if you cheat like that? Even with all of that, he wasn't that good.

The damage to some of those franchises is just massive. HYA and SEO are in good shape, but Kure and Kawaguchi are husks. It would take them years to recover with good consistent management. Getting that management is tough. The LRS is a niche in a niche.

So what does this mean for the future of the LRS? Jeez. That is tough. To fill 5 openings... I don't know if it is possible or not. Matt did a heroic job last off season, so I wouldn't put it past him. But it is a very tall order.

For the record: I don't hold Matt as responsible for this. Online play like this is largely an honor system. As Patrick mentioned, it isn't very hard to fake an IP. This sort of fraud wouldn't be too difficult to perpetrate. But it would be very hard to detect.

At this point, I think the best choice is to take a step back assess. Skipping some sims is probably in order. We need to determine how extensive the damage is and what the best options are for a viable PEBAverse moving forward. Maybe the LRS can survive as is. I hope it can. But if it means a transition so something else (the merger concept seems to be the best idea), then so be it. What has happened here is bad. What happened last off season was worse. We didn't let that scumbag destroy everything we've built and this one won't either.

I'm not going anywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:26 am 
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We may be okay with the other three teams. I am dotting all the i's here, trying to clear those three guys if they are innocent. I'm going to feel like the world's biggest ass for having suspected them in this, but at the end of the day I want to do right by everyone.

But I have convincing proof that Charlie and Dylan were one and the same.

I draw you to this thread. http://www.pebabaseball.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8541&p=87682&hilit=+coatesville#p87682


And where did the Statesmen change their password from on Jan 27?

This from the forum logs:

Statesmen 204.108.158.210 Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:48 pm Changed user password
» Statesmen

So I run that IP, and this is what I get:

IP Locator & IP Lookup For 204.108.158.210 (Organization: Coatesville Area School District)
IP Location by city, state, ISP - 204.108.158.210 From Coatesville United States


Where I think the other three guys might have gotten mixed up in this is likely also Charlie's fault. As Jonas suggested, he was likely trying to sign in to those recent accounts with the generic password that we give out and tell user's to change (but who sometimes do not). As these were all recently added or changed GM's to the league, this was probably quite easy for him to figure out.

You can also find the 204.108.158.210 IP under Charlie's account in the log on statslab.


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 Post subject: Re: Massive Fraud
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:40 am 
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Fwiw, I also do suspect that he and Shannon (Kawaguchi formerly were one and the same). I can not conclusively prove this, but my suspicion rests with the original IP in question and the fact that it was used with Kawaguchi during the time period that would have been Shannon's first go around with the league. To detail all the circumstantial evidence would be time consuming, but there is enough there to satisfy me that there was more than coincidence happening. I just don't have the smoking gun.


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